Sam Boyd | CopySmiths
Blogging is a mainstay of any content marketing strategy, but with so much content out there - much of it of a very poor quality - what does a world class blog look like in 2022?
CopySmiths content coach Sam Boyd works with clients to create blogs that drive search engine rankings, traffic and revenue. In this episode, he shares the best practices that the world’s top bloggers and content marketers use to get extraordinary results.
From planning your blogging strategy, to writing approaches, to the structural elements (think headings, images, etc.) that make up a great blog, he covers everything marketers need to know to create an outstanding blog.
Get the details on all of this, and more, in this week’s episode.
Resources from this episode:
Visit the CopySmiths website
Connect with Sam on LinkedIn
Sam and Kathleen recording this episode
Kathleen (00:09):
Welcome back to the inbound success podcast. I'm your host, Kathleen Booth. And today my guest is Sam Boyd, who is a content coach with CopySmiths. Welcome to the podcast, Sam.
Sam (00:20):
Hi Kathleen. Thank you for having me on today.
Kathleen (00:22):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. I would love to get started with a little bit about your background, um, and what CopySmiths is.
Sam (00:32):
Okay. So I'm a freelance writer and I work in all kinds of eCommerce niches and CopySmiths's they write blog content at scale for clients all over the world, and I'm a content coach for them. So I basically do some developmental editing on the articles written by CopySmiths writers and help them reach their goals effectively.
Kathleen (00:55):
Great. So your whole job is around like creating, not just good blogs, but blogs that get results. Is that
Sam (01:02):
Fair? Exactly. Yeah. Okay.
Kathleen (01:03):
Yeah. Great. And that's really gonna be our topic today is, you know, this word blog, I feel like gets tossed around a lot. Um, in terms of, you know, it's been around for a long time and when blogging first started, uh, you know, I'm gonna just put it out there and say that for a lot of people, it was really like a check the box exercise where it was like, let's just throw up a few paragraphs and hit that keyword. Right. And that game has changed because it's a much more crowded space now. So in your opinion, well, I mean, why don't you share how you've seen blogging change? Like, and what does that mean for marketers?
Sam (01:40):
Well, as you said, blogging, these days has like a lot of competition. So the market in blogging is becoming very saturated. So it used to be that you could just write a blog article and it would probably rank on Google because there wouldn't much competition, but nowadays you need to be very tactical about the kinds of blogs you write, you need to target like long tail keywords and be tactical about it so that you are beating out a competition effectively.
Kathleen (02:07):
Yeah. And, and I think it's, it's also, in my opinion, it's not just longer tail keywords. It's really like adding value that somebody can't get anywhere else. Yeah. Because there is so much content out there, um, that it's really easy to get lost in the shuffle. Right. And if your content isn't good, in my opinion, at least you lose trust really fast people go to your site and they're like, Ugh, this is just another, you know, piece of junk. That's not gonna tell me anything I need to know. And so, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like what I've observed is you either need to spend the extra time and write something that has like more information or better information, or you need to have a unique point of view. That's the other way you can really kind of come at it.
Sam (02:55):
Yeah. And I think what you're saying about trust and having a unique point of view is important because it's about helping the reader and not just writing an article, that's a copy of everything else in the market. You need to like fill knowledge gaps and add that bit of value. That's gonna keep the reader coming back for more so that when they look for blog content online, they, they look for you in particular rather than just Googling your keyword and finding you effectively.
Kathleen (03:21):
Yeah, I amen. Okay. I wanna stop your, and if you're listening, I wanna put a pin in what, what Sam just said, which, and I'll, I'll rephrase it in, in this way, which is that it's like you only have one chance to make a good first impression, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Somebody comes and they sees your content. They see your content and it's not good. They're not coming back. They're not gonna click on your result the next time. You know, they find one high in the search engines, but if you do make a good first impression, then you can benefit from branded search. And I've, this is the big change I've observed in the last few years, which is that Google has moved from becoming this amazing source of traffic for websites to trying to answer everything right in the search engine results pages. And what, what that's resulted in is a, a lot of Google searches don't result in a click.
So you might rank, but you may still not get a click through. So this is why it is so important for you to build a brand that people know love and trust. So that instead of maybe doing a generic search, eventually they get to the point where they're searching out your name. Like what does copy, Smith's have to say about this blogging strategy, as opposed to what's the best blogging strategy, right? Like branded search gets the click through invariably. So that's my, my little rant is over <laugh>, but I feel strongly about that. I think it's, I think it's the thing that most marketers are, are missing.
Sam (04:47):
No, I agree with what it's all about becoming a full leader in your niche. And it finally does take time to do, you're not gonna do it with your first blog article, but if you blog like consistently with valuable content, you will eventually build that level of trust that will keep customers coming back.
Kathleen (05:02):
Yeah, absolutely. All right. So knowing that we have to do better, you know, that the, the world has changed and we need to do better these days. Can you break down for me? What better really means? Like when you work with clients, how are you approaching their blogging strategy and, and the individual blogs so that you're sure they're gonna be better.
Sam (05:23):
Honestly, there's so many different things you can do to make the blog better. And it comes down to like both the content of the blog itself and simply the way the blog looks like there's so many different aspects to improve a blog. And in regards to the actual writing, it's all about actually answering the reader's question. So don't be around the Bush, don't bury your lead halfway down the article, just get straight to the point and solve the reader's question instantly and solve it in depth as well. Like don't just give a basic answer and then leave a loose end. Yeah. Explore the answer, like explore it, add value, basically build bridges. And in terms of the actual visual element, the blog needs to look nice as well. It needs to be easy on the eyes. It needs to be something that the reader can look at and think this is well presented. I can see that thought and care has gone into it. And it's just this whole work of art essentially.
Kathleen (06:20):
So give me some examples of like you, you mentioned like visually how the blog is set up. Like, what are some examples of things that you can do in terms of your user experience and okay. User interface that make for a, a higher quality blog,
Sam (06:36):
Visual elements and not just any visual elements, visual elements that add value. So we're talking like bullet list and tables and pictures, but not just any pictures, not just like stock images, but pictures that actually get the reader to stop and look at them. So like diagrams and product pictures with descriptions on them and stuff like that. So stuff that really just keeps the reader eye attached to the page. And finally, white spaced, you don't wanna have bigger blocks of tech that just has the reader look at it and think, oh gosh, I don't wanna read all of this. You need to space your text nicely and just have it visually presentable in that regard to,
Kathleen (07:13):
Yeah. I I've actually, I strongly believe in that. And it's interesting because I think a lot of people who become marketers and who become the people responsible for blogs, a lot of us have been trained very classically and like the Chicago manual style and all of these things. Oh yeah. And so we're, we've been trained to write these paragraphs and you're so right with blogging, what I've seen. And I have data to back this up from when I was at impact for a couple years, we published 25 articles to our blog a week and we got a half a million visits to the website a month. So we had a lot of data to draw on from, in terms of what works and what doesn't, and what we saw was the shorter, the paragraph, the better. And in fact, in many cases, your paragraph might only be one or two sentences and that's fine.
Yeah. Um, and so like that, that traditional paragraph that you were taught in school to write, like take it and break it up just because reading on a computer is different, right. It's not the same as, um, getting lost in a book. And I think you and I talked about this once before where, you know, I can speak for myself when I read a book, I get lost in the story. So my brain is not focusing on the, the chunks of the paragraph because I'm not, I'm not reading it to learn something or reading it, to find a particular information. I'm reading it to allow my brain, the space to build a story. So the longer paragraphs are conducive to that. I, I can go deep and get lost in it. That is not what a business blog is about. A business blog is about getting somebody to, to finish it, getting them to get the information they need and delivering value, not getting lost in a story. So yeah, psychologically, this is why the shorter paragraphs are important. You need to like match the, the visual of the blog to how the brain functions. So I'm very passionate about that. And in impact, we ran a lot of analysis and we learned that those very short one to two sentence paragraphs are far more effective than the longer ones.
Sam (09:14):
And quite interestingly, it's easier said than done as well, because we're got like tapping into my experience as a writer when I'm writing, I often like get lost in a flow of ideas. And so I'll get to the end of a paragraph and I'll have this big block of text. Yeah. And then I find what usually works then is you can find spaces to break up that block of text. You don't necessarily have to write in short little chunks, you can write big old paragraphs, but then just go through it afterwards and break it up. And I find a really good place to do that. Is it connectives? Like things like your howevers and things like you're there for, yeah. They're really good places to just break up your ideas. And I, I like to think that one idea per paragraph is all you really need.
Kathleen (09:54):
I totally agree with you. And in fact, I was gonna say the same thing. I think there's two ways to tackle breaking it up in my experience as somebody who's been like very in the weeds with blogs in the past. Um, and, and in running teams that, that have to be in the weeds with blogs. The first is yes. Just write it, get it, do your, what I call the word vomit, get it out on the proverbial paper and then go back and put some hard returns in, in there. And, and, you know, like even you can have paragraphs that are just a few words. Like, you know, I, I, I'm used to saying it used to be, you did things this way, blah, blah, blah, period, hard return, not anymore is a paragraph period hard return. And now here's how we do it. So like there's ways to also use your punctuation and your, your paragraphs to like, make a point more clearly. Um, not really. Yeah. Yeah. So if you go back after you've written it and you do that, that's effective, but then also I'm a strong believer that you should never edit your own work. And so even if it's just finding a coworker who can give it a read through and ask them to see if they can chunk it out, cuz sometimes having a impartial pair of eyes is a little bit easier. So
Sam (11:08):
Honestly I wouldn't be able to make it in the industry without my editor. Yeah. I really wouldn't.
Kathleen (11:13):
Yeah. It's important, you know? Cause you develop it's the equivalent of banner blindness from advertising, right? Like you can't see your own mistakes and if you could, you wouldn't have made them in the first place.
Sam (11:23):
No, no, no.
Kathleen (11:24):
Um, so, okay. So I love that. So visually breaking the paragraphs up, I'm so glad you mentioned putting in like tables and images and things along those lines because especially in a world, uh, where a lot of people are talking about and using these concepts of pillar content and topic clusters, pillar, content is long and you know, marketers for whatever reason, we tend to default to just a lot of writing. Um, and when you have a, like a really long piece of content, that's just all words. It is exhausting to read. So I think, yes, the more you can break it up, the more likely it is that somebody's gonna read it.
Sam (12:03):
Actually, one of the things that the founder of CopySmithss told me, who's always been a bit of a mentor to me, Katrina, she's a lovely person. She said every a thousand words, you should always have a customer testimonial in your, in your article, in the form of a block quote, because it helps break your article up. And it also gives that bit of social proof you need. So you should have that at least once every 1000 words.
Kathleen (12:25):
Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. Now let's go back because you mentioned headings and subheadings and this is another one that I think is like, it can seem like a super dull duh kind of a topic, but I actually think it's really important and I think a lot of people get it wrong. So how do you approach headings and subheads?
Sam (12:43):
Okay. So for starters, if you're writing on like word or Google docs and whatnot never used the title subhead in because it's really bad for HDML and bad for SEO because it confuses Google. And then moving on into the subheads, we tend to never go past H threes. We only use H two S and H three tag because when you get past that point, it does start to get a little bit messy. And so like it's really important that you structure article like appropriately with the different tags and that you make them enticing and interesting and use power words in them to try and capture the reader there and just keep your article well structured and broken down and just easy to navigate. So when you're scrolling down, you can easily get all the information in without actually reading the article. And thus time, I always actually tell like my, um, my writers when they're writing, um, subheads for like listicals or tip guides. I say, if I'm scroll down the article really quickly, I should be able to get a gist of what's in the article, just from reading the subheads.
Kathleen (13:50):
Absolutely. And here's another pet peeve I have. And I'm curious if you share this or if it's just me and maybe it's just me, um, is I can't stand when the people that write for my teams will put like an H two for example, and follow it immediately by an H three and there's no lead in copy. So what do you think about that? <laugh>
Sam (14:13):
Okay. I think there is a space for doing that because sometimes as well, the alternative that is I've seen someone do a H two and then they've done like a really weak transitional phrase and then gone into the H three, which I find in that regard, it does get a bit fluffy. So I think like if you do a H two strain into a H free correctly, it's okay. But I wanna put emphasis on correctly. If you just do it and leave out information, then it's no good. But if you can do like a, a nice paragraph that isn't fluffy to add the value to the reader, then you should, but I don't always think, yeah.
Kathleen (14:46):
Or even a sentence. Like I'm always my, my position on that is there's always a space to say something along the lines of like below we'll cover X, Y, and Z. Even if it's just one sentence to, to set the stage for like, here's what you're about to find.
Sam (15:01):
Yeah. I think, I think that's fine as well. It's just, I don't like these like transitional sentences that just don't add value that are just kind of hung there. Awkwardly kind of thing.
Kathleen (15:10):
Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So there's formatting aspects to, to creating a great blog, which we've covered. What about substantive aspects?
Sam (15:22):
Okay. So can you elaborate on that a bit?
Kathleen (15:23):
Yeah. So I mean like the actual content of the information in the blog, like how do you approach making sure that the information you're delivering is truly high quality?
Sam (15:37):
Honestly, I think the best way to do that is to do your research and look at what the competition's doing and then quite simply do it better. And that is the best way to measure higher quality because there's always room to, to write a better article than the competition. And so you'll know if you have the finished piece, if you can read it back to yourself and you can say, what I've got here is more valuable than the competition. It's given more information and fill in gaps that a competition hasn't necessarily filled in, then you have a high quality article.
Kathleen (16:09):
So yeah, I think it was Brian Dean from Backlinko who coined the term, the skyscraper technique to describe what you're talking about, which is basically like you think of a city, like if you wanna have the best building, you need to find the tallest building and then build one taller. Right. And exactly. Yeah. And so the idea here is like Google the term or the phrase that you want to get found for, look at the results and, and basically, um, build, figure out what makes them the fir the number one result. Good. And then build something that's better. So that what makes it good could be that it's like, if it's a Listal, it might have 16 items, then your Listal should have like 19 or 21. Yeah. Um, and then it could also be like going through and kind of diagnosing like, alright, they have these different sections, they're covering these types of topics. So I need to cover those, but then also more, or go more in depth or whatever it is. But I always liked that, that phrase to describe it, cuz intuitively to me it made sense.
Sam (17:11):
And, and what I find as well is when you look at a competition, you can kind of gather pieces from looking at like, not one link on Google, but looking at turn three, you'll see like one article send one thing, another send sign else. And then you can kind of collate all of that information to effectively make the definitive article that beats that all of the competition. I'm not saying to just coll it. And then it, at that, once you have collated it make some educated guesses based on the knowledge you've learned like talk of an authority and like fill in loose ends and just like really make something that's like, that just can't be beaten effectively because you've covered everything in depth and just thoroughly and really good.
Kathleen (17:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So can you give me some examples of like how this translates into results? Like, do you have stories of customers you've worked with where you've applied this approach and it's produced results?
Sam (18:04):
Yeah. Um, so one customer that we've been working with recently is a customer called wiper tech and effectively what they do is they sell, um, windscreen wipers. And what we started to do for them is we started to write articles on how to change windscreen wipers, which is really interesting. Cause we found that in the market, there wasn't a lot of decent guides on how to do that. They were all very vague and they all had an agenda which was to sell the company's windscreen wipers. And so like, they weren't very helpful. But what we found was a really good source of information for doing that was YouTube. We found that, that on the other hand, there weren't many articles on it, but there were tons of YouTube articles on doing that or YouTube articles, sorry, YouTube videos on doing that. And so we essentially were able to like, look at these like vague articles on how to change windscreen wipers, which leaned heavily on just put in a YouTube video in them.
And we were essentially able to write a huge, really in depth guide on how to do it using the YouTube videos, but not leaning on them, using them and breaking them down. So the reader didn't have to watch them and yeah, effectively made these guides where someone could read them. And, and at the end of the day, to be honest, they probably will just watch the YouTube video. But the fact that the text is there as well, which for Google is really good cuz Google can't look a YouTube video. Right. And so, yeah, that's a, that's one good example of where we've done that for a client.
Kathleen (19:31):
I feel like you created a curriculum around the YouTube videos. Does that make sense
Sam (19:36):
Effectively? Yeah, yeah.
Kathleen (19:37):
Yeah. Like stitching them together and sort of order and helping with the narrative and the sequencing of them. I like that. Yeah. Which is,
Sam (19:45):
Which is another good way as well with clay information, you don't necessarily need to rely on like other articles by the competition. You can look at other like YouTube and infographics and anything really as a source of information. And
Kathleen (19:59):
So how, it's a really, so how, what did that do for the windshield wiper company?
Sam (20:04):
Well, I wish I could show you images. Cause we do have a, a case study page where you can actually see that within about six months of them joining us, you can see their results increasing on the search engine result page. And you can see like their click through rate increase in and things like that. But we do have like a whole case study page on our webpage. If your listeners wanna go and have a look at that where they can see the actual, we AC we have like a line graph that shows the traffic increase in and it usually takes from like starting a business to like hiring us to get results. It usually takes about six months from zero traffic to grow viewers, but that you can see a significant increase.
Kathleen (20:44):
Awesome. And now I wanna just shift cuz we, we mentioned the phrase pillar content and topic clusters earlier. Yeah. And I don't wanna just gloss over that cuz that's an important part of this. Um, and I know from talking to you in the past that, you know, it's not just about, let's write a blog on X topic and that's a standalone effort. It all is part of a broader strategy. So can you talk me through how you and the team at CopySmithss think about knitting together, a comprehensive blog strategy.
Sam (21:12):
Okay. So effectively we'll have a client come forward of us and they'll, they'll tell us what their goals are. Like, they'll have a particular product they want to sell or something like that. Or they wanna bring more traffic into their website. So what we'll do is we'll go onto a website called HF RF, whatever your pronunciation might be. And we'll effectively look at what their keyword is. So normally they'll either, they'll either tell us, like give us an idea of what they want and we'll either come up with some keywords appropriate to their niche or we'll just go of the keyword they give us. And we'll, we'll essentially make a whole list of keywords that either have low competition or have potential to ranking them. And we'll come up with a cluster of articles. So we'll like, we'll pick one particular keyword that we think, okay, this client could be successful in.
And then we'll write, say pen or 20 articles for that keyword. We won't just write one, we'll write a whole group of articles and we'll cluster around that topic and then we'll branch out. So we'll link then we'll, we'll interlink into other keywords and things like that. So essentially the way you can look at it is we'll create a web of topics that will create forward client, which will all come back to. As you were saying, a big old pillar page, which will be the main drive. It'll be the really long article. And this web of content, these clusters will all interlink into that pillar. And so you are essentially making this huge avenue of traffic where you have different readers coming in from all different directions that are all essentially being sent to this one central location, which will just increase the lurk rate of your website because you have all these different like avenues of traffic and just sell the main article, the main drive you want to sell.
Kathleen (22:51):
Now, um, I wanna go back for one second to something that's much more structural linked to this topic, huh? No pun intended. I just realized I did that, but it's about, about the linking. Um, so I've always been led to believe that when you do a topic cluster, how you do your internal linking structure is very important and it will have an impact on the results you get. And so what I was taught and I'm curious to know how you guys approach this. Cause I don't know if what I was taught was right or not, but I was always taught that for every article in the cluster, the, the internal links should point only back to the pillar because there's only so much, if you will link juice that can flow through that article and you should reserve it and focus it on that pillar so that it really ranks. I don't know if that's true anymore. How do you guys approach
Sam (23:41):
That? I don't necessarily agree with reserving it, but I do agree with what you're saying. When you say you have a certain link juice, like you, can't just spam links in an article because the read all know exactly what you're doing and they won't be interested. But I think if there's a relevant place that's contextual for you to put in a link to another article. That's not necessarily your pillar by all means, do it because like all traffic is good traffic, cause there's no hard rules saying you can't link to this page because it's your pillar. But there is a rule that your links have to be contextual and relevant. And that's good for SEO as well because SEO looks for, for contextual interlinking because the way Google works, it's, it's, it's a web ruler. And so it'll go for your article and it'll see a link and it'll say, you've, it'll see, you've got a certain term in that link. And so it'll go through to your next page and if it can see, yeah, this page is related to that term. I put on my link and then it'll, it'll rank your article because it can tell that you are linking relevantly contextually. And so that's really important and not necessarily just link into your pillar.
Kathleen (24:42):
Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. All right. Um, any other advice for somebody who's really trying to kind of up their blogging game today? Like what do you think most companies miss?
Sam (24:56):
Honestly, I think the best piece of advice I can give those companies is to just keep blogging and to like have a content calendar to keep posting regularly. And if you don't get results on your first or second article, don't tell yourself, well, blogging's not working for me and look for a strategy because it doesn't happen overnight. And just keep planning your blogs, like write 10 blogs, get a calendar up like a content calendar that posts them automatically once a week. And I think that's really effective.
Kathleen (25:27):
I like that. Okay. Shifting gears, I always have two questions. I ask my guests. Um, I sent those to you. I know, I think a while back. Um, and so I I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. The first being most marketers find it really difficult to keep up with everything that's constantly changing in the world of digital marketing. So how do you personally stay up to date and keep yourself educated?
Sam (25:48):
Okay. What, this is gonna be the most boring arm, sorry. Possibly give. But in terms of like blog writing and an SEO, the best way to stay up to date is to read Google Google's guidelines because Google has this huge manual, which they're constantly updating where they talk about the things they look for in, in a successful article. And so just once a month, take a look at it and just, what's
Kathleen (26:11):
That called again? It's like, there's a name for it. It's like search ranking,
Sam (26:17):
Honestly, from the top of my head. I can't remember. I'm gonna do a really quick Google search
Kathleen (26:23):
On yeah. Do it, do it while we're talking and we'll find it. But I, I agree with you. That's a super, that's the document they give to the people who work at Google, who manually go through and verify that what the algorithm pushed to the top should really be there. And those people can override the algorithm if they want to for ranking cloud guidelines,
Sam (26:41):
It's on Google search central and it's just called search engine optimization, starter guide. Okay. And it's this huge manual with loads of different categories that if you, if you read it all, you'll get lost in it and you won't remember any of it, but just every so often just take a look at it and see if anything stands out on there. I think that's the best thing you can do to stay up to date.
Kathleen (27:00):
That's awesome. Okay. Um, second question. You know, this, um, podcast is all about inbound marketing, which I personally define as anything that naturally attracts the right audience to you. So I'm curious in your opinion, is there a particular person or company that you think is really setting the standard for what it means to be great at inbound marketing today?
Sam (27:23):
Honestly. Sorry, my mind's got a little blank. No,
Kathleen (27:28):
It's okay. Take your time. <laugh>
Sam (27:31):
Um, let me just have a look at my, and
Kathleen (27:34):
I always tell people like who, whose content are you consuming? Right. Cuz it's usually us as consumers what's working on us. Um, and that could be a consumer products company that draw drew you in and got you to buy their thing. Or it could be that company that, you know, you're turning to when you need to learn, um, or, or a product that you're using a software product, for example.
Sam (27:54):
Okay. Okay. I've got some, sorry.
Kathleen (27:55):
No that's.
Sam (27:57):
So we recently wrote a bunch of articles for a company called Layla delicacies. And basically what this company do is they create, um, these delicacies like larva and stuff like that in New York for, um, basically people who are from like Turkey and stuff like that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> who like have moved to New York and they just want a taste of like their home country essentially. And they've got a blog page. And what I really like about their blog page is that in all of their writing there imagery is so vivid that it draws you in, in such a way that you can almost taste the food that they're selling. And it really just makes you wanna buy them. Like even as like, even as a reader working for this company, I've read some of the articles that writers have done with me and I've been tempted to go and buy their products.
Kathleen (28:48):
<laugh> I love that. Now I'm afraid to look at it cause I'm like, shoot, it might get me to start to buy Boulevard. Yeah, yeah.
Sam (28:54):
Tur
Kathleen (28:55):
Delight or whatever.
Sam (28:56):
Yeah. And all their images are so like, so like vivid and detailed and like the language they use, they don't just talk about how great our product is. They talk about the culture behind it, the history of the food. And it's also detailed also Capade and like every time we write this client, I find it hard not to order in their product from New York.
Kathleen (29:18):
Oh, I love that. And actually I like that point that you just made because really kind of the under the sub the subtext, there is sometimes it's not the words that are the thing that really makes the difference. Sometimes it's the image that goes with it or, or, you know, absolutely. It's about all these things put together. And so now I'm definitely gonna have to check that out and have all my willpower ready to go as I do that.
Sam (29:41):
Gosh.
Kathleen (29:42):
All right. Well, um, we're coming to the end of our time. So if somebody wants to learn more about you or has a question about this topic, what's the best way for them to connect with you?
Sam (29:50):
Okay. What I can figure our website, which is just www.copysmiths.com. And on there, they can find a contactless page where they can get in touch with us and find all the information they need. And also going back to, I was saying earlier about, um, seeing the results we give. We do have a case study page on there where you can see actual, really detailed line graphs of like the success we've had of our clients and growing their businesses.
Kathleen (30:14):
Great. Okay. So head to the show notes at kathleen-booth.com and you'll find links to that over there. In the meantime, if you enjoyed this episode, you could also head to apple podcast and leave it a review. That's how other people find us. Um, or if you know someone else who's doing really great inbound marketing work, send me a tweet at @kathleenlbooth on Twitter. And I would love to have them be my next guest in the meantime. Thanks so much, Sam. This was a ton of fun. I appreciate you coming on the show.
Sam (30:43):
Thank you for having me on today. I loved every minute.
